Take a deep breath. It’s no easier. The Top 3 might not be too tough, as I assume most of us will have the same three names, tho we’ll likely have some disagreement on the order. But 4-10, if anything, got harder.

No one of note dropped from the ballot; all of the usual suspects all got mentioned

15 Babe Adams
1 Earl Averill
12 Dave Bancroft 7th
4 John Beckwith 6th
1 Beau Bell
2 Wally Berger
5 Jim Bottomley
1 Oscar Charleston
1 Ripper Collins
7 Earle Combs
1 Andy Cooper
4 Kiki Cuyler
1 Dizzy Dean
12 Bingo DeMoss
9 Red Faber 8th
1 Wes Ferrell
8 Burleigh Grimes
1 Lefty Grove
1 Bump Hadley
5 Chick Hafey
1 Odell Hale
1 Gabby Hartnett
2 Fat Jenkins
5 Judy Johnson 3rd
3 Tony Lazzeri
3 Dick Lundy 5th
3 Heinie Manush
7 Rabbit Maranville 9th
6 Firpo Marberry
13 Carl Mays
1 JoJo Moore
1 Buddy Myer
1 Monte Pearson
8 Herb Pennock
2 Dick Redding
8 Sam Rice
10 Eddie Rommel
1 Charlie Root
11 Ed Roush 4th
14 Urban Shocker
11 Chino Smith
2 Ben Taylor
5 Pie Traynor 10th
8 Hack Wilson

Bob’s ballot:

I spent way too much time on this ballot, worrying where to put the 4th thru 10th guys. Because ultimately it doesn’t really matter at this point, since we know more or less who’s going in this year. And next. And next. And it ain’t going to be anybody I put 4th thru 10th.

I have come to a few conclusions about NeL stats. I’ve come to realize that they are a lot like pre-1880 stats. They are incomplete and subject to wild interpretations of what they “mean”. Hype and reputation, especially as is pertains to fielding and pitching speed, are paramount as to whether a NeL makes the Hall or not. Was Judy Johnson really the 6th best NeL player? Or does he have more in common with Tommy McCarthy? Was Bill Foster really the black Dazzy Vance? Or rather, the black Candy Cummings?

It does appear that Chino Smith was an extraordinary hitter, albeit in a very, very short career. Would Mickey Mantle have been a HOF if he had died after the 1957 season? Both Lundy and Johnson seem like ordinary hitters, but with great defensive reps and long careers. They both seem more like Dave Concepcion types, than 1st or 2nd tier guys, like their reps suggest they are. And I have come to the conclusion that Beckwith was in fact a great hitter, of dubious fielding abilities. Perhaps Chipper Jones thru 2008 might be a comp I’d use. Same general class as a hitter, tho Larry walks more; but no NeLer walked much. Ben Taylor and Fat Jenkins weren’t much as hitters either. Charleston was. Boy, was he. His peak may not have been as high as some others (like Josh Gibson or Chino Smith), but his length of career times peak….I’m not positive that Bill wasn’t right, ranking him as the 4th all-time greatest player in the BJHA. He may not have been 4th, but Top 20, possibly Top 10, could well be accurate.

The NeL pitchers are the hardest to rank. I am only ranking one in ’47. I may have him too high, but I do think the rest of you have him ranked way too low.

1. Grove
2. Charleston
3. Hartnett
4. Beckwith
5. Faber
6. Cooper
7. Bancroft
8. Rice
9. Roush
10. Averill

And about a dozen write-ins.

Terry’s ballot:

1: Lefty Grove
2: Oscar Charleston
3: Gabby Hartnett
4: Dizzy Dean
5: Rabbit Maranville
6: Wes Ferrell
7: Dave Bancroft
8: Edd Roush
9: Pie Traynor
10: Sam Rice

Honorable Mention

Kiki Cuyler
Wally Berger

Other Stuff

Earl Averill– Didn’t make the majors until he was 27 years old, which has to be the oldest of any white Hall of Fame position player. His numbers are pretty, but he’s a comp for the Wally Berger/Hack Wilson guys, not a serious candidate for the GOR.

Beau Bell– According to BBR, there has never been a Luke Bell who played in organized baseball.

Ripper Collins– Like his closest comp, Zeke Bonura, Ripper spent several years in the minors after he was done in the big leagues. His combined totals, from 25 years in baseball: 2695 games, 9332 atbats, 2958 hits, 559 doubles, 183 triples, 327 homeruns, a .317 batting average and a .521 slugging percentage. He drove in 180 runs in the International League in 1930, 167 games; he was the minor league player of the year in 1944, at age 40, when he hit .396 for Albany.

Andy Cooper– I had never heard of him, but he’s in the Hall of Fame. Does anyone know what to make of him?

Odell Hale– Pretty fair ballplayer; a good defender at either second or third who would take a walk and had a little pop, maybe a poor man’s Dick Auliffe or something… He was a weird looking bastard. He looked like he should be a lefty, but he wasn’t.

JoJo Moore– Born Christmas day 1908, died April Fool’s Day 2001.

Buddy Myer– Billy Herman’s back o’ the baseball card twin. Herman got in the real Hall with his hit and run hook, but I doubt either one of them will get close to the GOR.

Monte Pearson– Came within a single out of pitching a complete game victory in four consecutive World Series for the Yankees, 1936-1939. His career World Series era is 1.01 – 4 starts, 35.2 innings, 4-0 record.

Charlie Root– 200 wins ain’t nothin’ to sneeze at. If he played today his nickname would either be “Square” or something I can’t post on a family site.


12 ballots; the results:

153 Lefty Grove
144 Oscar Charleston
91 Gabby Hartnett
36 Earl Averill
26 John Beckwith
26 Red Faber
25 Dizzy Dean
24 Judy Johnson
23 Dick Lundy
22 Edd Roush
18 Dave Bancroft
17 Wes Ferrell
17 Rabbit Maranville
17 Sam Rice
12 Carl Mays
9 Wally Berger
9 Pie Traynor
8 Kiki Cuyler
8 Urban Shocker
7 Heinie Manush
7 Budy Myer
6 Dick Redding
6 Ben Taylor
5 Andy Cooper
5 Tony Lazzeri
4 Bingo DeMoss
3 Burleigh Grimes
2 Firpo Marberry
1 Eddie Rommel
1 Hack Wilson

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