With a 5-day voting period, we seem to be getting more ballots. So let’s stay with it. This election ends Thursday night.

5 Babe Adams
2 Dave Bancroft
1 Les Bell
15 Chief Bender 9th
7 George Burns 10th
3 Max Carey 4th
1 Rip Collins
5 Wilbur Cooper
12 Gavy Cravath
2 Bingo DeMoss 7th
1 Joe Dugan
1 Bibb Falk
10 Art Fletcher
14 Bud Fowler
5 Heinie Groh
1 Bucky Harris
6 Pete Hill 5th
7 Harry Hooper
12 Joe Jackson 6th
13 Grant Johnson
11 Ed Konetchy
3 Carl Mays 8th
5 Dobie Moore
1 Frank O’Rourke
15 Ed Reulbach
1 Edd Roush
3 Ray Schalk
1 Wally Schang
1 Earl Sheely
4 Urban Shocker
2 George Sisler 3rd
1 Chino Smith
11 Hippo Vaughn
2 Cy Williams
3 Ken Williams
7 Ross Youngs

Bob’s ballot:

1. Sisler
2. Johnson
3. Schang
4. Hill
5. Bender
6. DeMoss
7. Carey
8. Smith
9. Roush
10. Fowler

Terry’s ballot:

1: George Sisler– Hit .361-.404-.510 (155 ops+) in the first eight years after he moved from the mound, before his eyes went bad, over half of it against dirty balls. He hit .420, slugged .594 and stole 51 bases in 1922, winning the MVP. He missed 1923 with double vision, and from then to the end of his career he was just an average player. Bill can average them out and pretend that nothing happened, but to me his established level of ability before the eye problem matters. He was arguably the best player in the league not named Babe, and he played at that level for several years.
2: Max Carey
3: Wally Schang– He was discovered by George Stallings in 1912 and signed with the A’s, right before Stallings took over the Braves. Schang ended up playing against his mentor in the 1914 World Series. He was a near 130 ops+ hitter well into his 30’s, and a pretty good hitter into his late 30’s. He hit for a bit more power left handed, but for a higher average right handed. Hit .356 in World Series wins, .167 in World Series losses. He played well into his 50’s in the minor leagues, playing A ball when he was 53. I can’t assume he was a superior defensive catcher, but the best offensive catcher before lively balls is between Schang, Ewing, Breshahan and Bennett. Ewing is probably the best, but it’s hard to put anyone else ahead of Wally.
4: Dave Bancroft– If there is an old timer who can be reasonably compared to Ozzie with the glove, this is the guy. His defensive numbers are fun to look at, practically video game numbers.
5: Edd Roush– His ops+ actually goes up if you remove the Federal League from his numbers, to 130. Two batting titles in the dirty ball era and 10 consecutive seasons with a batting average over .320, some pretty good defensive stats in his peak years. I think he fits the C category well.
6: Harry Hooper– 321 winshares stands out, and he played for good teams.
7: Grant Johnson
8: Gavy Cravvath
9: Chief Bender
10: Chino Smith– I have this guy way too low, but it’s his first year on the ballot. Every statistic I have seen shows him as a standout hitter, one of the best hitters anywhere before his premature death from Yellow Fever. Ross Youngs, by dint of his own unfortunate death, is a poor man’s Chino in my opinion. I like Youngs as a lower level Hall candidate; I like Chino as a legitimate GOR contender.

Honorable Mention
Heinie Groh
Urban Shocker
Pete Hill

Not So Honorable Mention
Joe Jackson– Apparently he’s going in this year. Congratulations, Joe. Your casket isn’t allowed within 100 feet of a major league stadium, but maybe your descendants can get a few bucks when they sell the plaque. We’ll be sure to tell the authorities that they didn’t burn the plaque, that they merely sold it.

Other Stuff

Les Bell– Had a better year than Hornsby in 1926, homered and drove in 6 runs in the World Series. The Scott Brosius of the 1920’s?

Rip Collins– Career World Series era of 54.00, career regular season era of 3.99. What a choker. He managed to last until 1931, ensuring baseball a Rip Collins every year between 1920 and 1941.

Joe Dugan– The Frank Crosetti of the 1920’s, scoring over a hundred runs twice and playing on several pennant winners despite the minor handicap of being a lousy hitter. His reputation as a good defensive player doesn’t show up in the statistics either. He might be even more overrated than Crosetti, since he was named “Jumpin’ Joe” not for hustling, but for jumping the team whenever he felt bad about something.

Bibb Falk– Certainly a deserving member of a baseball Hall of Fame if college ball is included, like it is with the basketball Hall of Fame.

Bucky Harris– He hit 1 homer in the 1924 regular season (650 plate appearances), then 2 homers (11-33 overall) in the World Series. He will go into eternity as the only manager to win a World Series for the Washington Senators, and he was arguably the most valuable player in the Series as well. I wonder if anyone else can make that sort of claim? Manage a World Champ, and be in the conversation for the most valuable player in the World Series he won?

Frank O’Rourke– His career WAR was -4.4. Yes, minus 4.4. Bob, do you have a Linear Weights number for him?

Earl Sheely– Gandil’s replacement, the Mark Grace of the 1920’s. Ok, a poor man’s Mark Grace, but the general type.


14 ballots, the results:

141 George Sisler
95 Joe Jackson
86 Max Carey
64 Wally Schang
59 Pete Hill
47 Bingo DeMoss
36 Edd Roush
33 Chief Bender
32 Heinie Groh
32 Urban Shocker
32 Chino Smith
30 Carl Mays
28 Grant Johnson
26 Dave Bancroft
21 Harry Hooper
18 George Burns
15 Ed Reulbach
13 Wilbur Cooper
9 Babe Adams
9 Hippo Vaughn
8 Cy Williams
7 Ken Williams
5 Dobie Moore
4 Gavy Cravath
3 Art Fletcher
1 Bud Fowler

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